Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 106
02/25/2010 03:00 PM House HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB89 | |
| HB259 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 259 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 89 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 259-ADULT PUBLIC ASSISTANCE ELIGIBILITY
3:12:06 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 259, "An Act relating to citizenship
requirements and an alcohol impairment and drug testing program
for applicants for and recipients of adult public assistance."
3:13:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt Version 26-LS1126\P as the
working document.
CO-CHAIR HERRON objected for discussion purposes.
3:13:20 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER, speaking as the sponsor of HB 259, explained
that HB 259 was a new tool for protecting families and children.
He offered his belief that substance abuse was often at the core
of many problems. He proposed for HB 259 to allow the
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) ability to
perform "random and suspicion based drug testing of applicants
for state assistance." He opined a need for the state to
identify the cause if the state was expected to address the
matter. He stated that one in five Alaskans was looking to
public assistance for help. He offered an example of a person
applying for a bank loan, and that the bank would want to
receive financial background and information. He pointed out
that the drug tests and the findings would be confidential
within DHSS, and the information would be used for therapy and
assistance to those who were asking for help. He stated that
the standards would be set by DHSS. He expressed his desire for
solutions once the data was collected on substance abuse. He
complimented the community level drug data coalitions and
expressed his support for treatment and prevention for substance
abuse.
3:21:38 PM
JIM POUND, Staff to Representative Wes Keller, Alaska State
Legislature, pointed to a 2001 press release detailing a
McDowell Group survey which stated that substance abuse in
Alaska cost $614 million each year. [Included in the committee
packets.] He noted that the fiscal note for HB 259 was still
being prepared. He directed attention to other problems related
to substance abuse which included an increase in child and
family abuse. He stated that these problems were "very common
in lower income parts of communities and most of those
individuals are on public assistance." He offered his belief
that this was a radical way to address a major problem in
Alaska. He stated that money received from public assistance
shouldn't be spent on drugs. He noted that other states were
offering similar legislation. He said that HB 259 allowed an
individual to request an additional test should they test
positive. He stated that HB 259 would allow DHSS to continue to
provide assistance to another individual for support to the
family, as public assistance benefits would be denied to a
person who tested positive.
3:24:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to Version P, page 3,
and reported that he could not find any language that designated
an alcohol impairment test or standard.
MR. POUND replied that the sponsor left latitude to DHSS for the
regulatory process.
3:25:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON, in response to Mr. Pound, offered his
belief that the necessary suspicion for administering a test for
alcohol would be impairment, which was not designated as .08
[blood alcohol content], but rather as a change in one's ability
to operate a motor vehicle. He expressed the need for good
statutory standards, as well as specifications as to how
impairment would be checked. He asked to clarify the standard
for suspicion of impairment.
MR. POUND said there was no objection to these specifications,
and he offered his belief that the impairment standard was .04
[blood alcohol content].
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER expressed his definition of impairment to
be the ability for taking care of the family.
3:29:06 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON asked why drugs would not be placed in
regulation, instead of in statute.
MR. POUND replied that drugs and alcohol were considered at
different levels. He explained that HB 259 outlined federal
guidelines for drugs, to indicate an intent to meet federal
laws.
CO-CHAIR HERRON asked to clarify that these drug guidelines were
written into law by Congress, and not in regulation.
MR. POUND agreed.
3:29:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON asked when suspicious behavior would
stimulate a drug test.
MR. POUND, in response to Representative T. Wilson, stated that
DHSS could randomly request a drug test without suspicion.
CO-CHAIR KELLER stated that part of the assumption was that the
front line social workers had a lot of knowledge of the public
assistance recipients, and they may be the only one that sees
suspicious activity.
3:31:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON asked if illegal immigrants would be
randomly tested.
MR. POUND replied that it was not the sponsor's intent for
illegal immigrants to be deleted from the legislation.
3:32:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON asked if anyone on public assistance
could be randomly tested.
MR. POUND said that the intent of HB 259 was focused primarily
on welfare recipients. In response to Representative Wilson, he
stated that illegal aliens would not be eligible for public
assistance.
3:33:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON opined that an aid worker was already
statutorily required to report any abuse or neglect, and he
asked if this proposed procedure was to be instead of this
report.
3:34:29 PM
MR. POUND replied that criminal abuse would be considered a
different situation, whereas this situation was designed to find
help for the individual.
3:34:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked when suspicion would begin for other
than abuse and neglect.
MR. POUND replied that suspicion based was "falling down drunk."
3:35:52 PM
ELLIE FITZJARRALD, Director, Division of Public Assistance,
Department of Health and Social Services, stated that two
separate programs were affected by HB 259. She reported that
Section 1 of the bill dealt with the General Relief Assistance
program which provided emergency assistance, such as housing,
for indigent Alaskans. She shared that this program served
about 150 people each month, the majority of whom were legal
citizens or immigrants. She pointed out that Section 1 brought
it in line with the other public assistance programs.
3:37:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON surmised that those people applying for
public assistance had documentation that proved U.S. citizenship
or legal alien status.
MS. FITZJARRALD, in response, agreed that most applicants did
have the documentation, and she mentioned that DHSS could
interface with the Immigration & Naturalization Service (INS) to
verify the authenticity.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if this would cover emergency relief
from a disaster, when many people would not have access to any
documentation.
MR. FITZJARRALD replied that the program dealt mainly with money
for emergency rent or utility payments, and that 80 percent of
the funding was for burial assistance. She clarified that this
program was for public assistance to specific emergency needs
when someone would not qualify for any other program to basic
needs.
3:39:21 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked how the program would work, what
families were being profiled, and would it include all regions
of Alaska.
3:41:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER replied that the bill would apply to
anyone who asked the state for assistance. He stated that
substance abuse was a factor in so many social concerns.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA offered her belief that, in rural Alaska,
the easier times of access to people for testing were the times
of less drinking. She asked how testing would be accomplished
in a small community where access was difficult and expensive.
She asked if this had been included in the fiscal note. She
offered her belief that the problem was most extensive in these
small communities.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, in response, said that this was a work in
progress and that the analysis for testing would be included in
a future hearing.
3:43:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to page 3, lines 13-16, of
Version P, and read:
In this subsection, a "recipient of cash assistance"
does not include a dependent child, a caretaker of a
dependent child who is not a recipient of public
assistance based on the caretaker's financial need, or
a protective payee, as defined by the department in
regulation.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON posed a situation in which a family
received cash assistance, and asked would the members of the
household, other than the applicant, be subject to random
testing.
MS. FITZJARRALD explained that the provision intended to address
situations when a family member, or a relative, was caring for
the children. She stated that 28 percent of the families
receiving temporary assistance were only receiving assistance
for children, often as a means to avoid foster care placement.
She detailed that often the relative was not receiving
assistance, but that the temporary assistance was for the
children.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if the dependent child would be drug
tested.
MS. FITZJARRALD replied that the intent was to just test adults,
but she added that no one would be tested in the family
situation which Representative Seaton described.
3:46:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON then posed the situation for a family, and
inquired as to who would be subject to the drug and alcohol
test.
MR. POUND replied that the applicant would be tested.
3:47:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON asked if one parent first applied for
temporary assistance, was it allowable for the other parent to
come in the next time.
MS. FITZJARRALD replied that the majority of families on
assistance were single parent, although there were some families
on temporary assistance. She offered her belief that the intent
of the bill was for either parent to be subject to testing,
based on random sampling or suspicion.
3:48:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON asked to clarify if this was just for
temporary assistance.
MS. FITZJARRALD offered her belief that this was for the
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program (TANF), and
would also apply to tribal TANF programs.
3:49:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON questioned why this only applied to the
temporary assistance programs.
MR. POUND, in response, said that even the temporary assistance
programs can have five years of benefits. He opined that the
bill would ensure that "the people on temporary assistance that
are coming in to the system are not going to ultimately end up
being long term."
3:50:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked if DHSS had data for the use pattern
of public assistance, specifically for peaks during the time of
year.
MS. FITZJARRALD, in response, reported that there were patterns
to assistance due to the seasonality of jobs in Alaska. She
said that assistance requests would increase between December
and February, and would begin to decrease in May. She pointed
out that it would correspond to the unemployment rate. She
declared that she did not know of any data specific to HB 259.
3:51:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked for an explanation of the procedure
for drug testing.
MS. FITZJARRALD replied that DHSS had reviewed what was
available, and she expressed the difficulties presented of such
diversity within the state. She offered a preliminary estimate
of the cost for a drug testing program.
3:53:03 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON acknowledged that this bill was a work in
progress. He declared that he did not want "to pile on
additional duties to someone that is a public assistant." He
allowed that it was a complex issue, and that the committee
responsibility was to discuss the policy.
3:53:45 PM
MIKE HOFFMAN, Executive Vice President, Association of Village
Council Presidents (AVCP), stated that AVCP opposed HB 259.
He opined that HB 259 was unconstitutional, and an unreasonable
infringement on the privacy rights of welfare recipients. He
stated that there was no crucial and public safety concern to
justify this intrusion. Furthermore, he declared, the
administration of the alcohol and drug testing would be a
difficult and burdensome process. He pointed out that the
Alaska Supreme Court had already determined that random drug
testing of Anchorage firefighters violated the privacy clause of
the Constitution of the State of Alaska.
3:56:36 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER commended DHSS for its caring attitude for
people and situations.
3:57:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention to page 6, line 10, of
Version P, and inquired if it was the intention to remove public
assistance for 30 days.
CO-CHAIR KELLER replied that the intent was not to leave someone
without assistance for 30 days.
[HB 259 was held over with the objection to Version P left
pending.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 259 bill packet - House HSS meeting 2.25.2010.pdf |
HHSS 2/25/2010 3:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |